JimBlogZ

Recently I posted a video online in regards to the changing of the Sabbath to Sunday from its scriptural Saturday observance. There were many interesting comments posted in response.

One thread in the discussion brought out a couple of interesting points which I’ve decided to share here. While expressed as statements, each quote contains the root of an interesting question to which I’ve given my response.

I’ve edited the comments slightly and divided them up a little differently in order to more clearly communicate in this forum the main points. The gist and spirit of the discussion have been left intact. If you have any questions, please feel free to leave a comment!

I’m more with Romans 14 on “specs” of [Sabbath] observance, “One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.”

I’m sure folks here could proof-text w/ different scriptures back and forth, but that’s where I am. Thanks, Jim.

Hi ****, thanks for sharing your perspective. You’re so right about the proof-texts that could go back and forth! I must have seen them a hundred times! And in the end few are convinced.

But what’s really important when all is said and done, as Paul wrote in the verses you quote, is that each must be fully be convinced in their own mind.

Interestingly enough, most 7th day sabbath keepers I know are just as much with Romans 14 on “specs” of observance as you. Consider the other side of the coin from your position. In v.6 Paul writes: “He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord…” And that is exactly what they are doing.

Most I know that keep a 24hr/7th day Sabbath are most definitely observing it for the Lord as opposed to observing it by the letter of Torah. It’s entered into as an act of reverence and worship, rather than as an obligatory duty.

There are some folks that approach it as an obligation and “suffer” through it. I think for them it is a worthless endeavor because their heart is wrong. They aren’t observing it for the Lord, and biblically speaking, the Lord notes their attitude. (Better had they not done it, I think, but perhaps I’m wrong on this. But I am sure that it is not the best way, nor is it the way YHWH appreciates.)

The folks I typically interact with observe a 24hr/7th day Sabbath because we LOVE the Lord. It’s but one expression of our love. The concept of Sabbath observance as a banner of the Lord’s people hits home for many of us because we’re proud of being included in His Sabbath! For us it’s an honor and delight. A truly special day. But again, as Paul says, each must be fully be convinced in their own mind.

Agreed on all points, Jim–you have a breadth of perspective that I appreciate. Interestingly, even some messianic ministries I’ve known apparently do not necessarily choose Saturday for their personal Sabbaths, finding it does not work out well for their ministry responsibilities (conferences, traveling, etc.) but instead choose “a” sabbath–… whether a literal day or periods of rest and reflection that they recognize as adding up to one before God (as convicted).

Thanks for your kind words, ****. As to the situations you mention regarding variant practices among messianic ministries: all I can say is that those aren’t my practices.

It would be sin for me, according to my conscience, to practice as they do. But still, I won’t judge them for their practice. All I can say is that what I practice is what my mind, conscience and spirit tell me is biblical. Because that is my conviction, that is what YHWH requires of me.

In regards to their difference in practice, I take the approach of Paul: “I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. (Php 3:14-16 KJV)”

I realize it is a topic that provokes strong responses, and certainly there is a richness inherent in Jewish tradition that you get to feast on by standing for Sabbaths proper and other Jewish traditions.

I appreciate the spirit in which you say “there is a richness inherent in Jewish tradition that you get to feast on,” but would also point out that the richness I feast on is actually not Jewish tradition, but Scripture.

I don’t hold myself bound to Rabbinical (Jewish) teaching and tradition, though there are lessons to be learned from it. I do adopt some Jewish traditions to the extent that I find meaning to my own faith in them. But those teachings and tradition, as the work of man, are not something I consider to be required. Of course, I consider Scriptural Torah and principle to be binding and so I hold to it. Some would see this point differently. But that is where I am…

I am curious, Jim, as to whether your ministry has been Seventh-Day Adventist, general Messianic, or ___.

I was saved 25 years ago when I was a seeker of truth enmeshed in a world of pantheistic lies. The Holy Spirit opened my eyes to biblical truth, and I made a commitment that I would seek all spiritual truth by the Bible, and that I would always follow the truth, no matter where it led or what I would had to leave behind to do so.

Since then, most of the journey my Master, King, and Father has taken me on has been in the evangelical world. Some time ago I understood the Spirit, through Scripture, fasting, and prayer, to be calling me to observe the 7th day, 24 hour Sabbath. Since responding to that call, new understanding has flooded into my walk with Messiah, and I adjust my course to match His flow.

Now my faith and practice have a different emphasis and application, but they are still biblical and Kingdom seeking. In that sense, they are no different at all. Another way to put it might be that though my practice is somewhat different, still the spirit and the “textbook” are the same and so the journey is still the same. Hard to explain, hope you get my meaning.

I’ve never had a 7th Day Adventist or Messianic background. What I practice, and therefore what I teach, comes from my walk with Messiah, the leading of the Spirit, and is shaped by Scripture.

To the extent that I’m still “in-process,” I don’t consider myself to have “arrived” at The Truth. I just personally walk by the truth I have been shown for today. I teach my congregation to read their Bibles, follow the Spirit, and walk true to Messiah in the truth they have today also.

Thanks for the excellent observations and questions. Hope I’ve answered your inquiries adequately!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Copyright 2009 Jim Zboran. All rights reserved.
Permission to reproduce and distribute hereby granted if the following four conditions are met: 1) The article must be reproduced in its entirety and the content may not be modified in any way. 2) Author’s name and copyright information, including these permission conditions must appear with article. 3) Author’s contact information (jim@jimzboran.com | www.jimzboran.com) must appear with article. 4) Article must be freely distributed without charge or financial gain.

Today’s question, from a Facebook friend and reader:

Jesus was the sacrifice and he was the priest. Since Jesus is our High Priest, how is the Mosaic law still valid? If you can, explain the Law of Christ in your own words…

My understanding of the matter:

The Torah and the Mosaic Law are largely the same, but they are different, too. The Torah is God’s teaching, or law. The Mosaic Law is Torah with the addition of a priestly system (placed under Aaron/Levites) put in place to minister the “letter” of the Torah to YHWH’s people, and a blood sacrifice system to teach the principal of blood atonement for breaking Torah.

The Torah pre-existed Moses, and indeed even YHWH’s promises to Abraham. In fact, it was because Abraham followed Torah that YHWH promised to make him a great nation. Speaking to Abraham’s son Isaac, YHWH said:

“Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws (‘Torot’ which is plural of Torah).” (Gen 26:3-5 KJV)

Actually, other people knew YHWH’s Torah before Moses, and even before Abraham. Abraham had apparently learned some Torah in Haran before his call to leave home. Apparently his father and family back in “the old country” knew feared YHWH. (See Gen 24:50; 31:29.) However it is also apparent that they served other gods. (See Gen 31:29-30; 31:53.)

The book of Hebrews teaches that Yeshua/Jesus is a greater high priest than Aaron, and of a different order. We are now priests under our high priest Yeshua, of a different order than the Levites (our order is of Melchizedek, under the high-priest of that order). Yeshua also provided the sacrifice of sacrifices and has done away with the need once-for-all for the sacrifice of animals for sin atonement. Because of this, the Levitical priesthood and animal sacrifice for atonement have been done away with as it is no longer necessary in/under Messiah:

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (Heb 7:12 KJV)

And:

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. (Heb 9:11-15 KJV)

So Hebrews teaches that the Levitical priesthood under Aaron and blood sacrifice for sin atonement were done away with when the time for the more excellent and permanent replacement came.

But the Mosaic Law is much more than the Levitical priesthood and blood sacrifice system. It is also Torah. It contains and teaches Torah. Our high priest and sacrificial atonement, Yeshua, opened the way for us to enter into a “new” covenant relationship with YHWH. As Hebrews teaches:

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (Heb 8:7-8 KJV)

And:

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (Heb 8:10 KJV)

Under the New Covenant, Torah is not done away with, but it is actually written in our hearts by the Spirit of YHWH. The Spirit indwells us who have entered into a New Covenant relationship with YHWH. He Himself teaches us by His Spirit, to understand and rightly apply what He Himself, by His Spirit instructed us in Torah written down by those still under the Old Covenant.

So to sum up: Torah stands as it has since creation. It must as it is YHWH’s nature codified, or written down. As such, it simply puts into words His nature and character, and He doesn’t change. Ever.

We have physically received the written down Torah through the Tanakh (“Old” Testament) which was brought to us, through the Spirit, by those under the Old Covenant with YHWH.

Now that we have moved into YHWH’s promised New Covenant, we still hold to the Torah (and the Spirit that gave and teaches it actually indwells us now!), but we set aside the obsolete Levitical priesthood and animal blood atonement sacrificial system as Scripture teaches us.

The “Law of Christ” includes the Torah, plus the keys to applying Torah: in love, and in the Spirit. “Of” has various meanings, which include “belonging to,” and also “from.” Both are true in the statement “the Law of Christ.”

The Torah was “owned” by Yeshua in the sense that He kept it and took responsibility for the keeping of it. But Torah is also “from” Yeshua. He gave it originally. Yeshua is YHWH. Pre-incarnate Yeshua gave the Law at Sinai with His own finger.

Many will make a big deal out of saying that the Law of Christ is different than Torah. That is doing mental gymnastics in order to reject Torah in favor of a system that they want to set up in place of Torah.

Hope that answers your question, or at least lays the foundation for your discovery of an answer. If I was unclear, or if my answer causes other questions to arise, please be sure to ask! Thanks for a great question!

Addendum: Follow-up Question!

Another Facebook friend added an important question to the discussion, so I thought I’d include it here too.

Well said!! But would love to hear you views on Matt 5:17 and Eph 2:8,9?

My understanding of the matter:

Matthew 5:17

Matthew 5:17 is a perfect illustration of what I meant when I wrote: “The “Law of Christ” includes the Torah, plus the keys to applying Torah: in love, and in the Spirit. “Of” has various meanings, which include “belonging to,” and also “from.” Both are true in the statement “the Law of Christ.” This verse, and those around it, teach that very thing.

The verse has a context, and more fully, the thought is:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 5:17-20 KJV)

Yeshua did not come to destroy the law or the prophets! Plain as day. When He said He came to “fulfill” them, he did not mean “finish” them, but rather he “completely adhered to all they require.” The verses following support that interpretation.

He offered stern warning to those leading others against law (Torah), and a blessing for those who lead others to the law. Note that Yeshua does indicate when the law will be “fulfilled” in the sense of “finished”: when heaven and earth pass away. Until then, His teaching is clear that we should “fulfill” or adhere fully to Torah, as He gave us example and instruction.

The last verse shows the key of fulfilling the law as He did: with YHWH’s righteousness by the Spirit. The verse continues on to state that the law approached by the letter (even by experts of the letter of the law, the Pharisees), was inadequate. The law can only be fulfilled by the Spirit that indwells us. When we follow the Spirit’s leading in Torah, and apply it by love for YHWH and love for our neighbor, it is rightly applied, or in other words, the requirement of Torah is fulfilled.

Yeshua continues into the following chapter with concrete examples of how fulfilling Torah by the letter differs from fulfilling it by the Spirit. But in each case, Torah is fulfilled, as Yeshua taught us to do!

Ephesians 2:8-9

Ephesians 2:8-9 is another excellent passage of Scripture to support my understanding of Torah and New Covenant believers. These verses, too, have a context. Let me expand the passage:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. (Eph 2:8-13 KJV)

First, Torah is not antithetical to YHWH’s grace. In fact, we must have YHWH’s grace because we are not able, of ourselves, to “fulfill” His Torah. We enter the New Covenant by grace. We don’t seek to fulfill Torah in order to enter the New Covenant, we seek to fulfill it because we have already entered into the New Covenant. We desire to do Torah because Torah is written on our hearts (see Jeremiah 31:31-34/Ezekiel 36:26-28/Hebrews 10:10-18). It is our privilege and our gift. Torah is our banner and our honor, in Messiah.

So we are, as taught by Ephesians 2:8-9, saved by grace and not by works. But when we read on we see what we are given life for: Good works! And those good works which YHWH had foreordained! Torah, foreordained, teaches us what is good:

“Wherefore the law (referring to Torah) is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Rom 7:12 KJV)

And because it is so “good,” it is even the rule by which we measure sin:

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (1Jn 3:2-6 KJV)

So Torah is our destiny in entering a New Covenant relationship with YHWH! Far from a burden, it is a delight. Far from trying to earn righteousness, we follow because we have righteousness in Messiah!

Notice also, that the result of Ephesians 2:8-9 is that we are now no longer aliens from the commonweath of Israel, but that we are brought near in Messiah. We aren’t strangers to those who preserve Torah, we are joined in with them as keepers of Torah! Often Gentiles picture this as meaning that Israel is brought to us. Actually what it says is opposite. We are brought to Israel by the blood of Christ. The wall of separation was torn down in order to bring us in, not to bring Israel out.

Wow! Great questions. I love being reminded of what the Scriptures say about these things!

Hope I’ve answered your question. Feel free to ask more!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Copyright 2009 Jim Zboran. All rights reserved.
Permission to reproduce and distribute hereby granted if the following four conditions are met: 1) The article must be reproduced in its entirety and the content may not be modified in any way. 2) Author’s name and copyright information, including these permission conditions must appear with article. 3) Author’s contact information (jim@jimzboran.com | www.jimzboran.com) must appear with article. 4) Article must be freely distributed without charge or financial gain.

What were the meats that was sacrificed to idols???I know pork…any others???

That was a question I was asked by a dear Facebook friend today. Here was my reply:

Hi *****, great to hear from you today! I think you’re referring to the meats Paul wrote about in I Corinthians 8:10 :

“For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols…”

The meat offered to idols was meat offered in the idol’s temple. As such they didn’t have anything to do with dietary laws in the Torah. They would have likely included meats that were clean under Torah, and presumably some meats that are unclean by Torah.

The issue Paul is referring to is not regarding clean/unclean, but rather any meats that had been previously “set-apart,” or made “holy” by pagans to another god than YHWH in ritual ceremony.

Coming across some of this meat at someone’s house later, or purchasing it in the market later, created a dilemma for some believers. Their conscience bothered them that they were eating something that had previously been part of an offering to false gods.

For others, their conscience was clear because they understood that they were simply eating food and it didn’t matter what foolish and meaningless activities others had put the food through before it arrived at their plate.

Though not a sin for the person whose conscience was clear in the eating of such food, it could become a problem for those whose conscience was bothered by it if it encouraged those people to go ahead and eat in spite of their guilty conscience about doing such things.

For those people, they sinned not because the food they were eating was previously vainly offered to idols by others, but because they were doing something that they felt was against YHWH. For them, therefore, it would be sin.

Paul’s point was that even though an activity might by acceptable according to our conscience, we should be sensitive to the effects it could have on others. Our boldness which comes in understanding Messiah should not be the cause of others, with less understanding, to become bold AGAINST Messiah.

Hope that answered your question, *****. That was a very good question and I appreciate the opportunity to express my understanding of the matter. Great to see you continuing to seek out a deeper understanding of your faith and the scriptures. You have been promised an answer to your seeking, so go for it!

Blessings, friend! Hope you have a wonderful day!

Good questions lead to good learning! Thanks to the reader who gave us an opportunity to consider Scripture a bit more today.

Have a question? Feel free to send it to me: jim@jimzboran.com

An interesting question from a Facebook friend:

“Come OUT of her my people….Who is the Her God is talking about?”

My reply:

Your quote is from Revelation 18:4. The “her,” of course, is referring to Babylon (in verse 2). So then, who is “Babylon?” Better perhaps to ask first “what” is Babylon. Generally speaking, I believe it represents a world-powerful, wealthy government that has both a political and a pagan religious component.

As at the tower of Babel, it attempts to establish the pinnacle of world government under the rule of man, rebelling against YHWH. In the process, it attempts to “reach up to the heavens” and “dethrone” YHWH, placing an abomination in His place.

The Roman Empire was certainly a successor of Babylon. The reference of John to the city on the 7 hills is likely a reference to it. But Rome may be a “mini-fulfillment” that foreshadows and leads to an eventual actual fulfillment as portrayed in Revelation 18.

Another way to see the 7 hills is not spread out, as they are in Rome, but on top of each other. Hills in Israel, called “tels,” are often “layers” of societies, one built on top of another, as one gets destroyed the next gets built on top of the rubble.

Archeological digs travel through each layer, which was it’s own “tel” or hill, when it thrived. Then after it was destroyed, the next layer built on top was a “new” hill. Perhaps, in a very clever way, the 7 hills referred in John’s day to Rome, but in the end times refers to the 7th “Babylonian” world power that was built on the previous 6. What are those?

The vision of Daniel 2:31-45 lays them out for us:
The first four “layers” of the statue are commonly accepted as Babylon/Medo-Persia/Greece/Roman Empire/

And then the next three arising, one “on top” of another in arising to world dominance, are possibly:

Holy Roman Empire/British Empire/United States of America

By that “hill upon hill” interpretation the United States would be the “Babylon” (as successor of her legacy of world power, wealth and, paganism) that will literally fall in the end days.

Irregardless of who the actual Babylon referenced in your quote is, or will be, there is a message for all who will hear it today. We might even end up being a part of a “mini-fulfilment” shadowing and laying the groundwork for the actual “full” fulfillment of Revelation 18’s call to God’s people.

If we, as YHWH’s people (“…my people…”), are enmeshed in a politically influenced and pagan-oriented religious system, then we should consider whether YHWH’s call to “Come out” of her applies to us.

How could YHWH’s people possibly be enmeshed in such a system? They will be decieved. It will be disguised as belonging to YHWH. Pagan influence and practice will be “decorated” to look like it is honoring to YHWH.

Paul teaches Timothy about what that church will look like in 2 Timothy 3. It will have a “form” of godliness, but look at the condition it is in: it doesn’t have His Spirit. Nor will it have YHWH’s practices, but a worldy perversion of them.

We should not attempt to reform “Babylon.” We should “come out of her.” That is the message of Revelation 18:4 to all believers who find themselves involved in the practices of “Babylon” now and at the complete fulfillment of Revelation 18:4.

After all that, I hope you’re not sorry you asked! but that’s how I see it now, at this point anyway. My understanding is sure to develop or change as time goes on. Many will completely disagree with me. And maybe they’re right. Many will be wrong. But that’s my working understanding of the issue you raised…

Good questions lead to good learning! Thanks to the reader who gave us an opportunity to consider Scripture a bit more today. Have a question? Feel free to send it to me: jim@jimzboran.com